Interview With Gavin Bishop for NZ Illustrators' Guild
June 2000

In The House That Jack Built the traditional nursery rhyme is placed in a New Zealand setting. Is it important for you to mix cultural influences in your work?

It must be. It's something that fascinates me so intensely that I keep returning to it again and again. I don't intellectualise it. It's intuitive.

The idea of setting The House That Jack Built in early New Zealand is something I've wanted to do for years. When I sat down to do a storyboard for that story, it just flowed out onto the page and I made very few changes to it before publication.

What is the most important aspect in the creation of children's books?

Imagination.

How did you become an illustrator?

I've been an artist since I was about 2 years old. That's all I've ever wanted to be. At first I thought I wanted be a signwriter or a window dresser in a department store. (They were the only art related jobs that I knew about when I started high school). However, I eventually stayed long enough at secondary school to gain entry into the School of Fine Arts at the University of Canterbury. There I studied painting under Rudi Gopas and Russell Clark. Several years after graduating I meet a teacher in Dunedin who said, "Have you ever thought of illustrating a children's book?"

A couple of days later I started to write Bidibidi.

From that time I've preferred to illustrate my own stories or ones that I've chosen. That way you can illustrate things that interest you and avoid things that don't.

How long did it take you to become established?

The first thing I wrote and illustrated was published. And I was fortunate to become established very quickly with the publication of several picture books in quick succession in the early 80's.

Many of your books are published overseas, how did you break into this market?

I'm not sure when this first happened but my first publisher in New Zealand was Oxford University Press. They made a point of encouraging other branches of OUP to buy into the printruns of my books. So Mr Fox, Chicken Licken, Mother Hubbard, A ApplePie, Mrs McGinty and the Bizarre Plant were all published in Britain, Australia, South Africa and later through a foreign rights agent, in the USA and Canada. In the late 80's I was approached by an agent in Boston. We had a good relationship for a while but only three books came from working together for about 10 years. Now I have an agent in Washington.

Is writing/illustrating full time work for you now?

Yes

Ideally, how many books would you like to produce in a year?

Two picture books. One for New Zealand and one for publication in the USA. I could fill the rest of the time with travel and freelance work.

Has being a teacher influenced your own work?

I'm not sure. It must have been in some way. I think I am better organized than I would have been if I hadn't been a teacher. As far as the content of my work goes, people think that it must be possible to get ideas from the kids you teach or meet when visiting schools, but I generally don't find it so. Children tend to think about the same things at the same age while growing up. Occasionally one child will come up with something fresh and extraordinary but that doesn't happen often. I think that I have got to know children pretty well. (Does that sound like a grumpy old school teacher speaking?)

What has been your greatest artistic influences?

Probably my time at the Canterbury School of Fines Arts studying painting has had the biggest impact on my approach to making art works. The most important lecturer I had there was Rudi Gopas whose approach to painting has stayed with me since that time. A general training in fine arts, rather than just in illustration, has been the foundation of all my book work. Russell Clark was also a lecturer at Canterbury and even though the tide at the time was against any art work with recognizable subject matter, he taught me that it was OK to be interested in children's picture book art and book design.

How did you develop your own style?

This is not something that I've had much control over. It just happened. I conciously chose to use pen and ink and water-colour as a medium and I started those early pictures for Bidibidi and Mrs McGinty with Maurice Sendak and Ron Brooks in mind. Other than that though, the characters and other details in the pictures just came out that way.

Have you received help or encouragement during your career?

I have received encouragement throughout my life to follow whatever I thought was important. When I was young and wanted to be an artist my parents were positive about it. At school, teachers encouraged me to follow a career in art. I graduated with good grades from university and when I wrote my first book it was accepted for publication immediately. I've been very lucky. There's been no bashing my head against a brick wall for me to have my work accepted. On the other hand it hasn't all been plain sailing. But that will keep for another interview.

What are the best/worst aspects of being an illustrator in New Zealand?

Being an illustrator has a very low status in the New Zealand art world. That doesn't worry me. The business of telling a story with pictures and words is far too interesting and challenging to allow what other people might think of it, to get in my way. Most people just don't realise what's involved and forget that picture book art is designed for a specific audience, children.

One of the best aspects of being an illustrator is visiting schools to talk about your work. Some of the questions can be tedious but if the class has been well prepared the experience can be magical.

What do you see as important issues for illustrators in New Zealand?

Words, like numbers, are treated with more respect in our society than pictures are. Illustrators must clearly see that they are a pivotal part in the production of of a children's book and expect to be treated well by publishers and writers alike.

The return of art work by publishers is still a issue that needs to be addressed although the situation has improved lately.

Have you any advice for illustrators at the beginning of their careers?

Get to know some of the other people working in the same field - don't work in isolation. And don't hesitate to ask advice about contractual matters that you feel uncomfortable about. Don't be flattered into signing away your rights.

What direction do you hope your career will take in the future?

I am not one to have a five-year plan. I can never anticipate what is going to happen next as far as my work goes and I quite like it that way. I've got several ideas for books tucked away at the back of my mind and I have always wanted to write and design an animated film.

But for the moment, I'm pleased to have left teaching because I now have the time and space to take on projects as they arise and I like working that way.